news:48k6jvkbem3i9s19sscjglg84rk348f5gs@4ax.com...
> Mike
>
> I think you are trying to make mountain out of a molehill.

I'll respectfully disagree, Peter.  This is clearly a difficult situation for all
parties but I think I've said what needed to be said on behalf of UKSF,
the official Euro 2004 newsgroup.  I don't believe I've gone overboard
on that.

> This all started when I posted the following message
>
> > The draw for the final tournament in Portugal will take place in
> > Lisbon on Sunday 30th November 2003.
>
> and you replied
>
> >As if we didn't know, Peter.  As the official Euro 2004 newsgroup, UKSF
> >knows everything there is to know about next summer's tournament.
>
> This response appears to be an attack on me for posting information
> that you say has already appeared on the uk.sport.football newsgroup
> although, as a regular reader of this excellent newsgroup, I do not
> recall having seen it posted before.

Well, it certainly wasn't an attack on you.  A newsgroup -- UEFA approved or
not -- is no place for personal attacks.  My reply was really just a reminder of
uk.sport.football's official status as the Euro 2004 newsgroup in a thread that
could have potentially undermined that.

> My response was merely to say that I could not find much information
> about EURO 2004 on this newsgroup or via the search engine on the
> UK.Sport.football web site which appeared to me, possibly incorrectly,
> to be the archive of this newsgroup.

Now, to be fair, the archive wouldn't have any official Euro 2004 information.
There might be some incidental information on the tournament but it's certainly
not official as that would be a breach of our agreement with UEFA.  Our
official information can only be reproduced on the newsgroup and can not be
used on websites, regardless of whether they're UKSF-affiliated or not.

> I can also not recall seeing any reference anywhere to the
> uk.sport.football newsgroup being the "official" EURO 2004 newsgroup
> and would be interested to know who granted this charter and why it
> was granted to a parochial newsgroup and not one that covered the
> whole of European football bearing in mind the competition is
> pan-european.

Well, there really aren't many high-quality newsgroups that focus exclusively on
European football so UEFA invited bids from all variety of football newsgroups.
We were as surprised as anyone when we actually won but looking back, we
put together a good package that would have been tough for other newsgroups
to compete with.  Even some of the bigger ones.  Obviously, there were some
conditions, such as ensuring that no racism or xenophobia takes place on the
group during the tournament and maintaining a certain amount of impartiality but
UEFA felt that we could provide a level of analysis and good-natured banter
that other groups couldn't.  It's a big honour for all concerned and if it goes well,
we'll be in pole position to become the official World Cup 2006 newsgroup.

> I fully accept that  http://www.euro2004.com/  is the official web
> site especially as it is run by UEFA, and am in no way jealous of it.
> I am certainly not jealous of the uk.sport.football newsgroups
> coverage of EURO 2004.

Well, I'm glad to hear that.  The last thing http://www.euro2004.com/  or
uk.sport.football want is for our official status to cause bad feeling with
unofficial websites and newsgroups that missed out on winning official status.
We like to think that Euro 2004 is bigger than such things.

> You mention that you go to a lot of trouble to get "official" EURO
> 2004 information and that "we haven't gone to the trouble of obtaining
> official Euro 2004 information just so unofficial websites can steal
> it from us."
>
> To date I cannot recall having read anything on this newsgroup about
> the competition that is not already in the public domain.

To be fair, a lot of official Euro 2004 newsgroup information was revealed
exclusively on UKSF six weeks or so ago before it had even been released
to the press.  Some of this official information was reproduced in other
groups and by unofficial websites so maybe I'm a little touchy on the subject
but if it happens again, we're the ones who'll get a bollocking from UEFA
about it.  It may even threaten our official status, which would, in my opinion,
be a shame.

> I can assure you that I have not "stolen" any information posted on
> this newsgroup and used it on my own web site. All of the information
> is sourced from many contacts that I have both in Europe and the rest
> of the World. It is of course possible that information on my web site
> also appears in other places in a similar form, but that can be said
> for any two web sites that are covering the same event. Nothing on my
> own web site has plagiarised.

Well, I'll take your word for it.  You seem like an honest man and I don't
doubt that you'd take as dim a view on official information thieves as I do.
If you tell me that your information is completely unofficial and hasn't been
reproduced from the official Euro 2004 newsgroup, that's good enough for
me.

Actually, you'll probably be viewing quite a few unofficial sites between now
and next June so if you see any official information being used without consent,
maybe you'd be good enough to inform either myself or UEFA?  It'd be much
appreciated.

> I am very surprised that you think my behaviour in this thread has
> been disgraceful. That was certainly not my intention and both I and
> friends of mine who have read this thread cannot find anything that
> could be classified as such.

Well, as I said, some previous theft of official information has left me a little
touchy.  It seemed to me at the time that you were just another unofficial
Euro 2004 website owner who wanted to come in here and disrespect our
official status.  I believe now, however, that such actions weren't your
intention.

> The response from Joe Horowitz is far more measured and explains the
> situation far better than your own rant and I thank him for that.

To be fair, Joe was as upset as anyone when it first appeared that the group
was under attack from an unofficial website -- Maybe even moreso.  But he
was good enough to explain the situation to you on the group and he was kind
enough to email me and tell me that he didn't think you were up to no good.
He's been very fair throughout this entire ordeal and I'd also like to thank him.

> In conclusion, it would appear that you do not want me to post
> information about EURO 2004 on this newsgroup, and I am quite happy to
> comply. You however are most welcome to visit my own site at
> http//:www.eifl.org.uk/eu2004 .

I think that's a little unfair.  Uk.sport.football is a public forum and if you wish
to post any Euro 2004 information to the group, that's absolutely fine by me
just so long as you label it "Unofficial" both in the subject line and the body of
the post.  This will prevent any confusion as we get closer to the tournament.

> You never know you might read something you don't know.<g>
>
> I will however continue to read the postings on this newsgroup and
> trust that you have no objection to this.

Absolutely none.  I'd be disappointed if you didn't.  The most important thing
here is Euro 2004, not some unfortunate squabble.


--
Mike

http://www.overanalyse.com